“I asked the question about Humans and Chimps being sub-species”. I have never said humans and chimps were the same species. What I said was that chimpanzees and humans (along with almost all other species) vary across their geographic range. In all species, other than humans, these variations are called either subspecies or races. For some reason we are unwilling to use the term ’subspecies’ for humans. But you still haven’t said what it is you see as being the difference between a subspecies and a race.

“Why do you mis-quote and twist words?” It seems from the above it is you who is doing that.

“I have pointed out that ‘Race’ has in the past had, and in modern times as well, political connotations”. No-one here has disagreed with that. Any disagreement with you is that it is not always used in such manner.

“he plays people for fools and throws things into a discussion that he doesn’t believe”. Once, regarding the southern coastal route out of Africa. And I certainly hit paydirt with that comment, didn’t I.

“Until now no-one mentioned slavery. Why did you bring it into the discussion for correction when it hadn’t been mentioned?” I would have thought slavery (and genocide) based on race would be the ultimate end product of racial supremacy beliefs.

Just leave. You’ve clearly made an ass of yourself, so there’s no point in digging yourself into a bigger hole. You’re the first person I’ve had to ban, and I have no regrets. You’re no longer welcomed here.

Kambiz

“It may seem a monumental effort to make a couple clicks to ‘track’ down Terry, but it really isn’t that hard. So don’t act like drama queen about it.”
Ah, now here we go. Kambiz, I have always respected the opinions of others, even when I don’t agree with them, but to go and insult someone is a low act. You own this website and I respect the service you are providing, but I do not respect someone who feels the need to insult others just because they don’t agree with them. I doubt after this post you will see me here again because this has become a place where opinions obviously cannot be discussed.

“Secondly, you’re clearly expressing your own agenda as well.” No agenda, just discussing the fact that “Race” has been used in this way for thousands of years.

“Race encompasses a lot of entities from ethnicity, biological variation, culture to political identity. Observations of genetic differences between populations as well as physical ones, are part of the population structure that defines a population as a population. Observations of cultural differences between populations also define the structure of populations. All of these are synonyms for race.”
No one has said any differently, so I am not sure what your trying to say here.

“To keep denying that race isn’t used in a multitude of applications, but rather strictly in political situations, is naive and ignorant.”
I really hope this doesn’t refer to me. Because if it does it will be the second insult you have leveled at me in this post. Now to discuss this, I haven’t denied anything, I have pointed out that “Race” has in the past had, and in modern times as well, political connotations. Now to deny that this has occurred and no longer occurs in the general public shows a lack of understanding of the basic Human understanding of fear of others.

“Now you and Tim can open up a relativist’s Pandora’s box by bringing up arguments that not all scientists agree upon everything, and feel you have a point. But you don’t.” Ah, but we do, and this is the point that shows science what it is. If we all agreed on something we wouldn’t have discussion. So your point in this case is mute.

“There are many scientists out there that are looking to see why people of African ancestry have such a high prevalence of kidney and Parkinson’s disease. Or why white people are not carriers of the cardio-protective haplotype. The most glaring example of genetic structure to a population/race can bee the Ashkenazi jew and they’re high prevance of Tay-Sachs and Cystic Fibrosis. I can go on an on about disease prevalence in populations, but I won’t.”
There are many scientist who also research why people in a certain region suffer from conditions such as Asthma. Yet this does not mean everyone from these regions are a sub-species or different “Race” to people in another region. As for Cystic Fibrosis there are districts in Australia that have a higher prevalence of it than other districts, this also does not mean these people are of a different “Race”.

“Neither Terry nor I have to answer your requests to show you decent research. You can do it yourself.”
I have never asked you to provide anything so please don’t say I have. I have asked Terry to show where he gets his information from because he plays people for fools and throws things into a discussion that he doesn’t believe. I apologize if asking someone, especially someone who say things he doesn’t believe, to clarify something with proof is upsetting.

“P.S. Correction on the political motivations of slavery in Persia — The Cyrus Cylinder, inscribed about 539 BC by the order of Cyrus the Great of Persia, abolished slavery.”
The point of this is? England abolished slavery to, but still went ahead and tried to exterminate entire groups of people because they were different. Until now no-one mentioned slavery. Why did you bring it into the discussion for correction when it hadn’t been mentioned?

It may seem a monumental effort to make a couple clicks to ‘track’ down Terry, but it really isn’t that hard. So don’t act like drama queen about it.

Secondly, you’re clearly expressing your own agenda as well. Race is simply not just a political idea. It is more than that. Race encompasses a lot of entities from ethnicity, biological variation, culture to political identity. Observations of genetic differences between populations as well as physical ones, are part of the population structure that defines a population as a population. Observations of cultural differences between populations also define the structure of populations. All of these are synonyms for race. To keep denying that race isn’t used in a multitude of applications, but rather strictly in political situations, is naive and ignorant.

Now you and Tim can open up a relativist’s Pandora’s box by bringing up arguments that not all scientists agree upon everything, and feel you have a point. But you don’t. There are many scientists out there that are looking to see why people of African ancestry have such a high prevalence of kidney and Parkinson’s disease. Or why white people are not carriers of the cardio-protective haplotype. The most glaring example of genetic structure to a population/race can bee the Ashkenazi jew and they’re high prevance of Tay-Sachs and Cystic Fibrosis. I can go on an on about disease prevalence in populations, but I won’t. Neither Terry nor I have to answer your requests to show you decent research. You can do it yourself.

Kambiz

P.S. Correction on the political motivations of slavery in Persia — The Cyrus Cylinder, inscribed about 539 BC by the order of Cyrus the Great of Persia, abolished slavery.

As usual TerryT you mis-quote things. If you would kindly read back to thepart where I asked the question about Humans and Chimps being sub-species, you might just see I answered it with a “not at all”. Why do you mis-quote and twist words? What is your agenda?

““One statement, I know I made it”. True. But you’ve mixed up two completely unrelated concepts.”
Only to someone who doesn’t know there history and isn’t watching what is happening in the modern world.

“The political leaders of “Rome, Greece, and Persia” all had political reasons for justifying enslaving or conquering other ethnic groups. However the evidence shows that in general they were quite inclined to let what we would call ‘minority groups’ rise to positions of consequence.”
And this happens everywhere else to, you might remember the Xhosa in South Africa have been running the country for over a decade now. In Australia we have had Referendums and allowed our own Indigenous Minorty to achieve many things. You seem to think that just because some past wrongs have been corrected that the minds of the masses are really all that different concerning “differences” in Humanity. I’m sorry to tell you but the events of Cronulla, Islington and my own town of Tamworth scream loud and clear that the Plebians of the world have a fear of “others” and use that fear to suggest “others” are inferior.

To go further, why do some European gov’ts want to acquire the DNA of Gypsies yet not other peoples? They have all admitted its not for social benefits or for crime prevention. Why else would you single out one group if its not because of some fear and use that fear to keep a group down.

TerryT instead of blogging somewhere else, why don’t you ask Kambiz if you can blog here, that way I don’t have to chase you around the net. There is always something you can’t do or are not willing to do, so please don’t tell me to look somewhere else, especially after you send me softpedia as some sort of authority.

It is instructive to compare Cladistics to Taxonomy. We could avoid these endless and largely unscientific debates by focussing on degrees of relatedness instead of trying to define bounded groups. Imagine how a shift such as that would feed into public discourse about the differences between people…. No longer would there be separate Races, instead people who are more or less related.

“does this infer we are sub-species of another species?” I gather from that comment that you’re not a biologist. I’ve written an essay regarding species and suspecies at a blog called remotecentral. If you go there and scroll down the side till you come to a subject “Human Evolution on Trial – Species” I think you’ll be able to understand how it works. (Can’t seem to submit the comment while I have the link in). Within the next few days there’ll be another one there related to the subject entitled “Long Ago”.

“One statement, I know I made it”. True. But you’ve mixed up two completely unrelated concepts.

The political leaders of “Rome, Greece, and Persia” all had political reasons for justifying enslaving or conquering other ethnic groups. However the evidence shows that in general they were quite inclined to let what we would call ‘minority groups’ rise to positions of consequence.