Comments on: Introducing Jon Entine, Anthropology.net’s new guest blogger http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/ Beyond bones & stones Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:03:54 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: P. Yoder http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-13701 P. Yoder Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:25:43 +0000 http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-13701 Ingrid: My family is Ashkenazi and we have a mennonite name. The jews in parts of Russia, such as the Ukraine, experience horrible persecution in the form of pogroms and harsh military service. The occasional sought refuge in the mennonite colonies, as the Russians would not persue them there. I speculate this is how my family came to have a mennonite name, and your family came to have Ashkenazi heritage. On another note. If your Ashkenazi heritage is from your mother's side, and her mothers, and so on, in other words, if it was an Ashkenazi woman who contributed the DNA, you could very well be a jew by orthodox standards. Ingrid:

My family is Ashkenazi and we have a mennonite name. The jews in parts of Russia, such as the Ukraine, experience horrible persecution in the form of pogroms and harsh military service. The occasional sought refuge in the mennonite colonies, as the Russians would not persue them there. I speculate this is how my family came to have a mennonite name, and your family came to have Ashkenazi heritage.

On another note. If your Ashkenazi heritage is from your mother’s side, and her mothers, and so on, in other words, if it was an Ashkenazi woman who contributed the DNA, you could very well be a jew by orthodox standards.

]]> By: D. Kornels http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-13307 D. Kornels Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:21:27 +0000 http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-13307 In response to Ingrid Briles question regarding how Mennonite and Amish people may have Ashkenazi DNA is quite simple. A significant number Jews believed in Jesus, ( historians say about 1/3 of Israel)they left Judea before the siege of Jerusalem. They remained endogamous, they kept many Jewish traditions, they believed in Jesus as Messiah and did not convert or assimiliate into gentile Christianity/Catholicism. Many of them fled to the Italian Alps around the 4th century where they lived quietly until around the Reformation times when persecution faced them again and drove them out. They believed they were the "Woman in the Wilderness" found in the book of Revelations. Those that fled into Holland were later called Mennonites after a prominent leader Menno Simmons, other that went into Switzerland were called Amish after Joseph Amman and those that went into Austria were called Hutterites after a famous leader and martyr Jacob Hutter. Martin Luther despised them more than rabbinical Jews because he said they lived like Jews, keeping the Sabbath, dietary laws, Jewish holidays, circumcision but claimed "Christ" . He wanted them dead. The Jews despised them also because of their messianic beliefs. Persecution drove them to drop many of the Jewish traditions and to deny their heritage in attempts to live peaceable lives. Still, take a look at their culture and you will notice many similarities between them and the ultra orthodox, be it in dress, family values, male/female roles, etc. Although one can leave the community, no one can join a Hutterite, Amish or Old Order Mennonite community, one must be born into it. It is more than a religion but a ethnic group with a long standing history of persecution. The germanic dialects spoken by these groups has more in common with Yiddish than modern day German, their dialects are based on medieval German proving these communities have been intact for a long time, they did not suddenly come together in the 16th century as modern day Anabaptist history states, linguistics proves otherwise. In some ways, the Amish/Mennonite/Hutterites are like the Crypto Jews that had to hide their true identity due to the Spanish Inquisitions. I have no doubt there were also rabbinical Jews that joined the Mennonite communities as I have seen several surnames among the Mennonites that denote lineage from a family of rabbis or from cohanim. Interestingly, their migration patterns through Europe are also identical as they sought religious freedom which would come and go as easily as it came. In response to Ingrid Briles question regarding how Mennonite and Amish people may have Ashkenazi DNA is quite simple. A significant number Jews believed in Jesus, ( historians say about 1/3 of Israel)they left Judea before the siege of Jerusalem. They remained endogamous, they kept many Jewish traditions, they believed in Jesus as Messiah and did not convert or assimiliate into gentile Christianity/Catholicism. Many of them fled to the Italian Alps around the 4th century where they lived quietly until around the Reformation times when persecution faced them again and drove them out. They believed they were the “Woman in the Wilderness” found in the book of Revelations. Those that fled into Holland were later called Mennonites after a prominent leader Menno Simmons, other that went into Switzerland were called Amish after Joseph Amman and those that went into Austria were called Hutterites after a famous leader and martyr Jacob Hutter. Martin Luther despised them more than rabbinical Jews because he said they lived like Jews, keeping the Sabbath, dietary laws, Jewish holidays, circumcision but claimed “Christ” . He wanted them dead. The Jews despised them also because of their messianic beliefs. Persecution drove them to drop many of the Jewish traditions and to deny their heritage in attempts to live peaceable lives. Still, take a look at their culture and you will notice many similarities between them and the ultra orthodox, be it in dress, family values, male/female roles, etc. Although one can leave the community, no one can join a Hutterite, Amish or Old Order Mennonite community, one must be born into it. It is more than a religion but a ethnic group with a long standing history of persecution. The germanic dialects spoken by these groups has more in common with Yiddish than modern day German, their dialects are based on medieval German proving these communities have been intact for a long time, they did not suddenly come together in the 16th century as modern day Anabaptist history states, linguistics proves otherwise. In some ways, the Amish/Mennonite/Hutterites are like the Crypto Jews that had to hide their true identity due to the Spanish Inquisitions. I have no doubt there were also rabbinical Jews that joined the Mennonite communities as I have seen several surnames among the Mennonites that denote lineage from a family of rabbis or from cohanim. Interestingly, their migration patterns through Europe are also identical as they sought religious freedom which would come and go as easily as it came.

]]> By: Ingrid Briles http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-5056 Ingrid Briles Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:51:50 +0000 http://anthropology.net/2007/10/10/introducing-jon-entine-anthropologynets-new-guest-blogger/#comment-5056 This is for Jon Entine. I recently had my mtdna done, as did my uncle (my mother's brother) have Ydna testing done. My uncle is predominently Scotch/Irish, German, Swiss and Russian. Mine is predominently Swiss, German, Russian, and Irish. Both of us were very surprised to find out that there are a large Ashkenazi group for each of us as well. My mom's side of the family is almost entirely Amish and Mennonite, who were also hidden and persecuted throughout Europe. Like Jewish people, the Amish and Mennonite were also pretty closed societies. My uncle (from his dad), is primarily Lutheran. I know those are religions not races, but I am wondering how the Jewish component moved into the DNA. As a Christian, I really like the idea that we have Jewish DNA because Christ was a Jew. Anyhow, any theories how Amish and Mennonite people would end up with Ashkenazi DNA? We know that we were documented in Poland in 1485 and in Switzerland in 1515. Thank you for any help. This is for Jon Entine. I recently had my mtdna done, as did my uncle (my mother’s brother) have Ydna testing done. My uncle is predominently Scotch/Irish, German, Swiss and Russian. Mine is predominently Swiss, German, Russian, and Irish. Both of us were very surprised to find out that there are a large Ashkenazi group for each of us as well. My mom’s side of the family is almost entirely Amish and Mennonite, who were also hidden and persecuted throughout Europe. Like Jewish people, the Amish and Mennonite were also pretty closed societies. My uncle (from his dad), is primarily Lutheran. I know those are religions not races, but I am wondering how the Jewish component moved into the DNA. As a Christian, I really like the idea that we have Jewish DNA because Christ was a Jew. Anyhow, any theories how Amish and Mennonite people would end up with Ashkenazi DNA? We know that we were documented in Poland in 1485 and in Switzerland in 1515. Thank you for any help.

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