Comments on: On mtDNA diversity within Africa, before the out of Africa migrations http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/ Beyond bones & stones Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:03:54 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Prehistoric Population Sizes & Migrations Within Africa Inferred From Coalescent Theory « Anthropology.net http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-12615 Prehistoric Population Sizes & Migrations Within Africa Inferred From Coalescent Theory « Anthropology.net Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:16:56 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-12615 [...] ancestral human population dynamics within Africa before the out of Africa migrations. The paper is very similar to one I reviewed in April, which also focuses on the diversity of the mitochondrial haplogroup L — one of the oldest [...] [...] ancestral human population dynamics within Africa before the out of Africa migrations. The paper is very similar to one I reviewed in April, which also focuses on the diversity of the mitochondrial haplogroup L — one of the oldest [...]

]]> By: Newly Discovered Y-Chromosome SNP Among Tanzanian, Nambibian, Botswanan, Angolan Men Correlates With The Arrival Of Pastoralism In Southern Africa « Anthropology.net http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-11995 Newly Discovered Y-Chromosome SNP Among Tanzanian, Nambibian, Botswanan, Angolan Men Correlates With The Arrival Of Pastoralism In Southern Africa « Anthropology.net Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:53:46 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-11995 [...] may know that previous research based upon archaeology, skeletal morphology, linguistics and mtDNA has suggested that prehistoric people in eastern and southern Africa were virtually isolated [...] [...] may know that previous research based upon archaeology, skeletal morphology, linguistics and mtDNA has suggested that prehistoric people in eastern and southern Africa were virtually isolated [...]

]]> By: How was the world peopled? « Anthropology.net http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-11028 How was the world peopled? « Anthropology.net Mon, 26 May 2008 02:01:20 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-11028 [...] oldest, if not the oldest, peoples in the world based upon the Y-chromosome. Exactly one month ago, a study of mitochondrial genetic diversity within Africa kinda challenged this conclusion. But because this study used the HGDP dataset from 2006, the [...] [...] oldest, if not the oldest, peoples in the world based upon the Y-chromosome. Exactly one month ago, a study of mitochondrial genetic diversity within Africa kinda challenged this conclusion. But because this study used the HGDP dataset from 2006, the [...]

]]> By: Vaclav http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10621 Vaclav Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:45:07 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10621 How is ti with Chromosome Y? Currently the root is considered to be 80 k years old, or maybe younger ... So to root is placed to the time of isolated groups, isn't it interesting? Does it mean that only one isolated group had men with root while the other had even older which was later replaced? If the Chromosome Y root is younger (even 40 k years) than the conclusion is similar ... the southern group's man would be above this root and later replaced ... How is ti with Chromosome Y? Currently the root is considered to be 80 k years old, or maybe younger … So to root is placed to the time of isolated groups, isn’t it interesting? Does it mean that only one isolated group had men with root while the other had even older which was later replaced? If the Chromosome Y root is younger (even 40 k years) than the conclusion is similar … the southern group’s man would be above this root and later replaced …

]]> By: TerryT http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10604 TerryT Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:17:22 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10604 Kambiz. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my earlier post. As you say, "Southern Africa does not have as much when compared to eastern Africa". And, "Many things coulda affected why this is so". One of those things is that the phylogenetic tree suggests L0 and L1'6 may have separated nearly 200,000 years ago. There's no reason on earth why we should associate mtEve's line with modern-looking humans this early. After all God didn't suddenly create her, in spite of what many people seem to believe. I wouldn't expect a sudden radical change in human physical appearance with her development. Modern human phenotype in the region could well be a result of the later movement from East Africa. I've looked at the suplimentary material and L0 is basically the only haplogroup isolated to a relatively small region. All the others are actually fairly widely distributed from Northeast Africa across the Sahel region and into Central Africa. If L0 is part of a later expansion from East Africa we would expect this line also to be widely distributed. Of course this doesn't contradict your statement that, "eastern Africa was where early H. sapiens originated and radiated outwards". I'm actually going away for a week so I won't be able to study any response until I get back. Kambiz. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my earlier post. As you say, “Southern Africa does not have as much when compared to eastern Africa”. And, “Many things coulda affected why this is so”.

One of those things is that the phylogenetic tree suggests L0 and L1′6 may have separated nearly 200,000 years ago. There’s no reason on earth why we should associate mtEve’s line with modern-looking humans this early. After all God didn’t suddenly create her, in spite of what many people seem to believe. I wouldn’t expect a sudden radical change in human physical appearance with her development. Modern human phenotype in the region could well be a result of the later movement from East Africa.

I’ve looked at the suplimentary material and L0 is basically the only haplogroup isolated to a relatively small region. All the others are actually fairly widely distributed from Northeast Africa across the Sahel region and into Central Africa. If L0 is part of a later expansion from East Africa we would expect this line also to be widely distributed. Of course this doesn’t contradict your statement that, “eastern Africa was where early H. sapiens originated and radiated outwards”.

I’m actually going away for a week so I won’t be able to study any response until I get back.

]]> By: Kambiz Kamrani http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10592 Kambiz Kamrani Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:07:17 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10592 Good point Terry, I see what you're suggesting. It is certainly just as possible that the L1'5 haplogroups originated in southern Africa and moved to eastern Africa as it is the L0 haplogroups originated in eastern Africa and moved south. But, eastern Africa has a far more rich and thorough record of fossils and artifacts that tell us of early <em>H. sapiens</em> presence in the region. Southern Africa does not have as much when compared to eastern Africa. Many things coulda affected why this is so, but the most parsimonious explanation is that eastern Africa was where early <em>H. sapiens</em> originated and radiated outwards. Good point Terry, I see what you’re suggesting. It is certainly just as possible that the L1′5 haplogroups originated in southern Africa and moved to eastern Africa as it is the L0 haplogroups originated in eastern Africa and moved south.

But, eastern Africa has a far more rich and thorough record of fossils and artifacts that tell us of early H. sapiens presence in the region. Southern Africa does not have as much when compared to eastern Africa. Many things coulda affected why this is so, but the most parsimonious explanation is that eastern Africa was where early H. sapiens originated and radiated outwards.

]]> By: TerryT http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10590 TerryT Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:30:00 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10590 Kambiz. You see a problem: "these haplogroups are more ancestral to the haplogroup L0 branch by at around 40,000 years, implying that the Khoisan may not be the deepest clade of living humans alive". I think the answer lies here: "As populations of early humans migrated ... and reached southern Africa, they ... diverge into two separate clades". Why do the authors assume the separation resulted from a migration south? If the migration had been the reverse, L1'5's ancestors had arrived from southern Africa, L0 could still be the ancestral haplotype. The more recent diversity of L0 could be explained if many southern lines had become extinct since the split. Selection. Kambiz. You see a problem: “these haplogroups are more ancestral to the haplogroup L0 branch by at around 40,000 years, implying that the Khoisan may not be the deepest clade of living humans alive”.

I think the answer lies here: “As populations of early humans migrated … and reached southern Africa, they … diverge into two separate clades”. Why do the authors assume the separation resulted from a migration south? If the migration had been the reverse, L1′5’s ancestors had arrived from southern Africa, L0 could still be the ancestral haplotype. The more recent diversity of L0 could be explained if many southern lines had become extinct since the split. Selection.

]]> By: Science and Humor « blueollie http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10589 Science and Humor « blueollie Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:11:54 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10589 [...] There were some interesting articles about human evolution. First, here is a somewhat technical take on this from Antropology.net Dienekes, Blaine, Razib, and Simon have all chimed in introducing us to a new paper from the [...] [...] There were some interesting articles about human evolution. First, here is a somewhat technical take on this from Antropology.net Dienekes, Blaine, Razib, and Simon have all chimed in introducing us to a new paper from the [...]

]]> By: archaeonerd http://anthropology.net/2008/04/25/on-mtdna-diversity-within-africa-before-the-out-of-africa-migrations/#comment-10588 archaeonerd Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:01:10 +0000 http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=809#comment-10588 The archaeology seems off in this paper also. For instance, "A recent study showed that ancestors of contemporary Pygmies diverged from an ancestral Central African population no more than 70 ka and that isolated was breached throughout the LSA." The LSA doesn't even start until maybe 40 ka, so what about the ~30k years between the MSA and LSA? The archaeology seems off in this paper also. For instance, “A recent study showed that ancestors of contemporary Pygmies diverged from an ancestral Central African population no more than 70 ka and that isolated was breached throughout the LSA.” The LSA doesn’t even start until maybe 40 ka, so what about the ~30k years between the MSA and LSA?

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