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	<title>Comments on: Evidence That Two Main Bottleneck Events Shaped Modern Human Genetic Diversity &#8211; Proc R Soc B FirstCite</title>
	<atom:link href="http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/</link>
	<description>Beyond bones &#38; stones</description>
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		<title>By: Die verlorenen (?) Kolonien - SciFi-Forum</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-15220</link>
		<dc:creator>Die verlorenen (?) Kolonien - SciFi-Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-15220</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kambiz</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14988</link>
		<dc:creator>Kambiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14988</guid>
		<description>Not gonna do your homework for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not gonna do your homework for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Monday Eforgor</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14980</link>
		<dc:creator>Monday Eforgor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14980</guid>
		<description>pls i will like to ask a question, i am a student in one of the university in Nigeria ( Part time )
Q1, Anthropology has a pride of place in the social science because of its holistic multifaceted approach to the study of human beings. Expatiate
Q2, Anthropology methods and theories are relevant and adequate in the study contemporary. Pls Elaborate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pls i will like to ask a question, i am a student in one of the university in Nigeria ( Part time )<br />
Q1, Anthropology has a pride of place in the social science because of its holistic multifaceted approach to the study of human beings. Expatiate<br />
Q2, Anthropology methods and theories are relevant and adequate in the study contemporary. Pls Elaborate.</p>
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		<title>By: onyx</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14941</link>
		<dc:creator>onyx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14941</guid>
		<description>yes the comments here are disenchanting, arethere really people who argue unarcheological idea&#039;s like out of canada? amazing. and indeed what does it have to do with skincolour? unfortunately i don&#039;t understand the research, too vague, an allel here or there, perhaps people doing such research would be helped to know that in the past 3 century&#039;s  most of the african populations, and thus genes have been driven south, and it explains some of the relative uniqueness of the khoi dna. (that you could better compare to zulu and xhosa eg.) also i still have to see a credible explanation for a bottle neck event in the levant, if anywhere imo that would have been in egypt, so in africa, also.. i may be misinterpreten, but any genetical indication for the whole of humankind, must at some point have been defining in our stature, thus.. the rare chance of a paralel mutation left out of consideration, you might want to define many more bottleneck events, especially in the early history of hominids, i think afar shows how that went.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes the comments here are disenchanting, arethere really people who argue unarcheological idea&#8217;s like out of canada? amazing. and indeed what does it have to do with skincolour? unfortunately i don&#8217;t understand the research, too vague, an allel here or there, perhaps people doing such research would be helped to know that in the past 3 century&#8217;s  most of the african populations, and thus genes have been driven south, and it explains some of the relative uniqueness of the khoi dna. (that you could better compare to zulu and xhosa eg.) also i still have to see a credible explanation for a bottle neck event in the levant, if anywhere imo that would have been in egypt, so in africa, also.. i may be misinterpreten, but any genetical indication for the whole of humankind, must at some point have been defining in our stature, thus.. the rare chance of a paralel mutation left out of consideration, you might want to define many more bottleneck events, especially in the early history of hominids, i think afar shows how that went.</p>
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		<title>By: Mailund on the Internet &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Last week in the blogs</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14925</link>
		<dc:creator>Mailund on the Internet &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Last week in the blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14925</guid>
		<description>[...] Evidence that two main bottleneck events shaped modern human genetic diversity (Anthropology.net) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evidence that two main bottleneck events shaped modern human genetic diversity (Anthropology.net) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: German Dziebel</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14920</link>
		<dc:creator>German Dziebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14920</guid>
		<description>The paper under discussion is about the two bottleneck idea and not about skin color. 

In any case, I expounded on an alternative, out of-America, view of ancient human dispersals in The Genius of Kinship: The Phenomenon of Human Kinship and the Global Diversity of Kinship Terminologies (Cambria Press, 2007) as well as here (http://anthropology.net/2008/05/12/the-genius-of-kinship-human-kinship-systems-and-the-search-for-human-origins/).

The Amos and Hoffman paper offered some evidence that is consistent with out-of-America and contradicts out-of-Africa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper under discussion is about the two bottleneck idea and not about skin color. </p>
<p>In any case, I expounded on an alternative, out of-America, view of ancient human dispersals in The Genius of Kinship: The Phenomenon of Human Kinship and the Global Diversity of Kinship Terminologies (Cambria Press, 2007) as well as here (<a href="http://anthropology.net/2008/05/12/the-genius-of-kinship-human-kinship-systems-and-the-search-for-human-origins/" rel="nofollow">http://anthropology.net/2008/05/12/the-genius-of-kinship-human-kinship-systems-and-the-search-for-human-origins/</a>).</p>
<p>The Amos and Hoffman paper offered some evidence that is consistent with out-of-America and contradicts out-of-Africa.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14917</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14917</guid>
		<description>Luis - Apart from the fact I don&#039;t think it&#039;s within my editorial remit to terminate threads, I&#039;m of the firm belief that correspondents should be able to comment as they see fit - just as it&#039;s the readers&#039; choice to follow or ignore such threads as they wish.

From a personal point of view, I&#039;d prefer people who clearly have a great deal to say on whatever topic, to write their own blog posts/articles in which all their thoughts are laid out clearly and coherently, rather than engage in the kinds of diatribe that all too often end up with insults traded and credibility questioned - a zero sum game that is of benefit to few, if anyone at all.

Alternatively, where instances of extended threads that depart from the original post become too commonplace, I&#039;d suggest that there are innumerable fora elsewhere online which might be more suitable venues for such discussions to take place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luis &#8211; Apart from the fact I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s within my editorial remit to terminate threads, I&#8217;m of the firm belief that correspondents should be able to comment as they see fit &#8211; just as it&#8217;s the readers&#8217; choice to follow or ignore such threads as they wish.</p>
<p>From a personal point of view, I&#8217;d prefer people who clearly have a great deal to say on whatever topic, to write their own blog posts/articles in which all their thoughts are laid out clearly and coherently, rather than engage in the kinds of diatribe that all too often end up with insults traded and credibility questioned &#8211; a zero sum game that is of benefit to few, if anyone at all.</p>
<p>Alternatively, where instances of extended threads that depart from the original post become too commonplace, I&#8217;d suggest that there are innumerable fora elsewhere online which might be more suitable venues for such discussions to take place.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14916</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14916</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if to love or to hate how you manage to divert the issue. I am talking of skin color of (some, many) &lt;b&gt;tropical&lt;/b&gt; Africans, Asians and Oceanians in contrast to that of Native Americans. Khoisans live south of the tropic of Capricorn mostly, so it does hardly apply. 

It is evidence that Native Americans had not enough evolutive time to develope anything of the sort, because they arrived only in &quot;recently&quot;, maybe some 15,000 years ago. Instead elsewhere they had plenty of time, maybe two million years or more if we count from H. erectus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if to love or to hate how you manage to divert the issue. I am talking of skin color of (some, many) <b>tropical</b> Africans, Asians and Oceanians in contrast to that of Native Americans. Khoisans live south of the tropic of Capricorn mostly, so it does hardly apply. </p>
<p>It is evidence that Native Americans had not enough evolutive time to develope anything of the sort, because they arrived only in &#8220;recently&#8221;, maybe some 15,000 years ago. Instead elsewhere they had plenty of time, maybe two million years or more if we count from H. erectus.</p>
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		<title>By: German Dziebel</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14915</link>
		<dc:creator>German Dziebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14915</guid>
		<description>Luis,

I thought we&#039;ve already discussed this issue at some point: the skin color of the Khoisans, which both Y chromosome and mtDNA studies nominated to be the oldest human population, is controlled by a derived allele. It&#039;s lighter than that of other blacks and is often likened to the skin color of Mongoloids. E.g., &quot;The lightly pigmented hunter–gatherer San population of Southern Africa is exceptional in having a high frequency of the derived allele relative to geographically proximate and more darkly pigmented African populations&quot; (Norton et al. 2007, 719).

So, we don&#039;t really know what skin color the earliest humans had. Maybe it was intermediate exactly like that of American Indians. Your theory of American Indians losing tropical pigmentation is contradicted by the Amos and Hofman paper under discussion, which, as you yourself pointed out, demonstrated that Amerindians are the least bottlenecked among the human populations in their sample.

The only way to control for subjective biases is to painstakingly weigh different options and to take all disciplines and all data into consideration. We&#039;re in the business of human origins. Since when have &quot;humanistic&quot; and &quot;anthropological&quot; become curse words?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luis,</p>
<p>I thought we&#8217;ve already discussed this issue at some point: the skin color of the Khoisans, which both Y chromosome and mtDNA studies nominated to be the oldest human population, is controlled by a derived allele. It&#8217;s lighter than that of other blacks and is often likened to the skin color of Mongoloids. E.g., &#8220;The lightly pigmented hunter–gatherer San population of Southern Africa is exceptional in having a high frequency of the derived allele relative to geographically proximate and more darkly pigmented African populations&#8221; (Norton et al. 2007, 719).</p>
<p>So, we don&#8217;t really know what skin color the earliest humans had. Maybe it was intermediate exactly like that of American Indians. Your theory of American Indians losing tropical pigmentation is contradicted by the Amos and Hofman paper under discussion, which, as you yourself pointed out, demonstrated that Amerindians are the least bottlenecked among the human populations in their sample.</p>
<p>The only way to control for subjective biases is to painstakingly weigh different options and to take all disciplines and all data into consideration. We&#8217;re in the business of human origins. Since when have &#8220;humanistic&#8221; and &#8220;anthropological&#8221; become curse words?</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/evidence-that-two-main-bottleneck-events-shaped-modern-human-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/#comment-14914</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2575#comment-14914</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What do you know about kinship studies, Luis?&lt;/i&gt; -

Enough. I know also, that like other &quot;humanistic&quot; disciplines (linguistics, anthropology in general) is prone to subjective interpretation. Slippery, largely speculative, science that must be taken with great caution, where most of what is written (apart of the field data) is just educated opinions. 

I will also tell you another thing (and please Tim or Kambiz, feel free to cut this rather off topic discussion whenever you think convenient): American Natives are the only continental population worldwide where tropical peoples are not black (dark brown to black skin color). This is a well known fact and is because they lost their tropical pigmentation when migrating to Siberia and Beringia and have not got evolutionary time to regain it. This alone is enough evidence to discard your hypothesis, though of course there is much more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What do you know about kinship studies, Luis?</i> -</p>
<p>Enough. I know also, that like other &#8220;humanistic&#8221; disciplines (linguistics, anthropology in general) is prone to subjective interpretation. Slippery, largely speculative, science that must be taken with great caution, where most of what is written (apart of the field data) is just educated opinions. </p>
<p>I will also tell you another thing (and please Tim or Kambiz, feel free to cut this rather off topic discussion whenever you think convenient): American Natives are the only continental population worldwide where tropical peoples are not black (dark brown to black skin color). This is a well known fact and is because they lost their tropical pigmentation when migrating to Siberia and Beringia and have not got evolutionary time to regain it. This alone is enough evidence to discard your hypothesis, though of course there is much more.</p>
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