Comments on: Spatial Organization of Fisher-hunter-gatherers at Gesher Benot Ya’aqov, Israel, 790 kya

By: Gesher Benot y las más antiguas evidencias de consumo de pescado en la prehistoria « Paleorama en Red

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:48:27 +0000

[...] Organización espacial [...]

By: Mammals of the Ocean

Mammals of the Ocean — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:58:52 +0000

[...] raisins, olives, carp, sardine, wild barley, crab, separate dining and food preparation areas Spatial Organization of Fisher-hunter-gatherers at Gesher Benot Ya?aqov, Israel, 790 kya Anthropolog… I'd bet they lived in beaver-lodge-like huts. No post-holes were found, so wood/reeds are more [...]

By: onyx

onyx — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:06:54 +0000

the part about carp fishing.. i agree with the stretch and that it is completely plausible more effective fishing methods were applied but there are modern human who mostly subsist(ed) on spearfishing, so it is not true it has appeared excellent recreation through history.

By: onyx

onyx — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:55:23 +0000

hmm. that is a long piece of workm i will comment in pieces because my mind keeps running about teh comments i want to make hampering my reading, i think you are interstingly mistaken in assuming neanderthalers “hurled spears” if i am not wrong it has been proved they were anatomically inept at exactly hurling them but used them for trusting, however that is surely suggestive of hunting fish with spears (that you touch on next) because that only involves thrusting and is helped by physical power (being able to hit the fish faster) , also when i talk about symbolic significance of handaxes before, i was thinking about the finds of stocks of elaborate and unused very old axes in africa , for example and about how we soemtimes find peculiarly nice pieces , a ew of them at obscured places in close proximity of living spaces, i would go a long way with you in that the example you mentioned was just thrown into a convenient hole. (for exampel maybe someone stole it for the nice looks and decided to want to get rid of the evidence) on with the reading.

By: terryt

terryt — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:46:32 +0000

True. But I used to hear about ‘tickling’ trout when I was younger. I don’t know if people still do it but it’s actually illegal here. Trout is only for sport, you know.

By: Tim Jones

Tim Jones — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:18:25 +0000

Dave, Terry:

Catching large fish in the manner prescribed by ‘noodlers’ might well account for sizeable carp and catfish a meter long, though it would be interesting to know how GBY people also caught sardines and tilapia – I can’t imagine anyone catching either of those two smaller species of fish by hand.

By: terryt

terryt — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 08:52:59 +0000

“I’m just not convinced fishing is a sign of anything that demands special technology”.

Exactly. Too much is made of fish and sea mammal bones in ancient sites as being an indication of boats. Absolutely not.

“they no longer seem to be talking about a direct sequence of evolution from antecessor to heidelbergensis to neanderthalensis”.

I’m sure that evolution of all species requires migration of some sort, often followed by hybridisation of some sort. So you get both continuity and change, and it’s difficult to asign a paricular level to either.

By: Dave Timpe

Dave Timpe — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:12:23 +0000

Because of taphonomic considerations, you can’t rule out such things as shelter and fire at Gran Dolina and other Atapuerca sites of equivalent age, but the fact that no Acheulean technology has shown up there leads me to suspect that whoever the occupants of GBY are, they had a different culture than their compatriots in Iberia, and may possibly have been part of a different population entirely. One of the Atapuerca researchers (Arsuaga, I think) is leaning toward a sort of a replacement of antecessor by the people represented at the Sima de los Huesos (and it seems he’s not sure he’s happy with calling them heidelbergensis as more than a placeholder). Maybe GBY is the leading edge of this wave about to head West to Spain? In any event, they no longer seem to be talking about a direct sequence of evolution from antecessor to heidelbergensis to neanderthalensis.

By: Dave Timpe

Dave Timpe — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:01:31 +0000

I believe they do eat them. Catfish are raised commercially as food fish after all. Generally, in this part of the world, it’s carp that aren’t considered desirable as food, despite their popularity in the Old World. They’re considered too bony to bother with, mainly.

I’m just not convinced fishing is a sign of anything that demands special technology. This is about as low-tech a method as you can find.

By: Tim Jones

Tim Jones — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:48:55 +0000

Dave – I don’t know if catfish are less wary than carp, and thus easier to lure, but catfish was also consumed at GBY – however, out of a total of 2,578 fish specimens found, only 1 was from a catfish, which if nothing else might tell us they’re not as tasty as carp – I’m guessing that the ‘noodlers’ don’t eat their prey.

As for these noodlers wallowing around drunk in rivers, I wonder what that tells us about 790,000 years of cultural evolution.