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	<title>Comments on: Göbekli Tepe Temple in Turkey Predates the Pyramids of Giza</title>
	<atom:link href="http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/</link>
	<description>Beyond bones &#38; stones</description>
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		<title>By: Maju</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-27542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-27542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Menhir, standing stone, column, pillar...

Wikipedia of sorts maybe? I can imagine that, somehow their collective knowledge was gathered in such images. Why not? At least to some extent it is probably correct. 

I do not know why these megaliths would have anything to do with other expressions that you happily clump together into the category &quot;totem pole&quot;.

I question your notion that these decorated pillars are better compared to Native American totem poles than to carved columns in a Gothic cathedral or whatever else you may compare with. Should we also consider cathedral pillars as totem poles or should we consider that a gargoyle and an eagle head may symbolize very different things? Is a pantocrator the same as a hieroglyph? Is the Venus of Mile the same as the Venus of Lespulgues?

Totem poles are specific of NW North American Natives, shamanism is specific of Siberian peoples and other practices that only vaguely resemble them cannot use the name at risk of extreme confusion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Menhir, standing stone, column, pillar&#8230;</p>
<p>Wikipedia of sorts maybe? I can imagine that, somehow their collective knowledge was gathered in such images. Why not? At least to some extent it is probably correct. </p>
<p>I do not know why these megaliths would have anything to do with other expressions that you happily clump together into the category &#8220;totem pole&#8221;.</p>
<p>I question your notion that these decorated pillars are better compared to Native American totem poles than to carved columns in a Gothic cathedral or whatever else you may compare with. Should we also consider cathedral pillars as totem poles or should we consider that a gargoyle and an eagle head may symbolize very different things? Is a pantocrator the same as a hieroglyph? Is the Venus of Mile the same as the Venus of Lespulgues?</p>
<p>Totem poles are specific of NW North American Natives, shamanism is specific of Siberian peoples and other practices that only vaguely resemble them cannot use the name at risk of extreme confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: DDeden</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-27541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DDeden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-27541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maju, please insert a better word than &#039;totem pole&#039; to describe common pre-agric. or proto-agric. semi-sedentary societal traditional upright pillars (wood/stone/ceramic/metallic) containing carvings/drawings of animals/humans in ritual postures.  The Chinook totem poles were simply one example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maju, please insert a better word than &#8216;totem pole&#8217; to describe common pre-agric. or proto-agric. semi-sedentary societal traditional upright pillars (wood/stone/ceramic/metallic) containing carvings/drawings of animals/humans in ritual postures.  The Chinook totem poles were simply one example.</p>
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		<title>By: CuJoYYC</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-27536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CuJoYYC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 15:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-27536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;… there is no doubt that it is a religious site&quot;

In the absence of knowledge and understanding of the true religious practises and traditions of the people who built Göbekli Tepe, how can you say there is no doubt? Until facts indicate otherwise, there is always doubt. &#039;Feeling&#039; that it&#039;s a religious site is one thing. Knowing it is quite another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;… there is no doubt that it is a religious site&#8221;</p>
<p>In the absence of knowledge and understanding of the true religious practises and traditions of the people who built Göbekli Tepe, how can you say there is no doubt? Until facts indicate otherwise, there is always doubt. &#8216;Feeling&#8217; that it&#8217;s a religious site is one thing. Knowing it is quite another.</p>
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		<title>By: Avia</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-27528</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Avia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 07:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-27528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s nothing like an eye-witness report - thanks Anne. 

 &quot;no place can compare to GT. After leaving there we really felt like we’d visited or taken part in something significant&quot;

 - sometimes feelings are more important than conjecture.

There is obviously far more to this site than has been mentioned in the official reports.
And there seems to be much more yet to be excavated. 

PS I don&#039;t think &#039;tau&#039; cross can be applied to these pillars, as the &#039;tau&#039; was essentially a Greek symbol of a much later date and was tapered, not square? So any pre-conceived ideas about &#039;crosses&#039; need to be put to one side, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing like an eye-witness report &#8211; thanks Anne. </p>
<p> &#8220;no place can compare to GT. After leaving there we really felt like we’d visited or taken part in something significant&#8221;</p>
<p> &#8211; sometimes feelings are more important than conjecture.</p>
<p>There is obviously far more to this site than has been mentioned in the official reports.<br />
And there seems to be much more yet to be excavated. </p>
<p>PS I don&#8217;t think &#8216;tau&#8217; cross can be applied to these pillars, as the &#8216;tau&#8217; was essentially a Greek symbol of a much later date and was tapered, not square? So any pre-conceived ideas about &#8216;crosses&#8217; need to be put to one side, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Mette</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-27480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne Mette]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-27480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amazing hos many thoughts and ideas that exist around GT, I wonder, have any of you been there? 

I have, in march 2010, and there is no doubt that it is a religious site. The pilars, The carvings and The main complex at least give some hope for explanation as to their function and usage.  But noone seems to be able to give any clue as to The many football sized round carvings in The ground at The bottom, or entrance, to The complex. To The large basins(?) That are at The same location. And The Even more mysterious carvings with an appearant altar and flowing grooves also in The rockface some hundred meters lower than The temple!

I have been to several of The historic cultural gathering sites in western europe, in egypt, greece, England, turkey and Syria, but no place can compare to GT. After leaving there we really felt like we&#039;d visited or taken part in something significant.

The city of sanliurfa, urfa, closest to GT claims after Local traditions to be The place where Abraham was born, there is a large abrahamittic cultus in The area, absolutly facinating! You would recognize so many of The myths/stories from The old testament. Even Local tales tell that after The flood Noah ended his journey here, that GT is mount arrarat. Thus explaining, in This tradition The presens of The extencive fauna reliefs on GT.

And The mulbery tree.... Epic!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing hos many thoughts and ideas that exist around GT, I wonder, have any of you been there? </p>
<p>I have, in march 2010, and there is no doubt that it is a religious site. The pilars, The carvings and The main complex at least give some hope for explanation as to their function and usage.  But noone seems to be able to give any clue as to The many football sized round carvings in The ground at The bottom, or entrance, to The complex. To The large basins(?) That are at The same location. And The Even more mysterious carvings with an appearant altar and flowing grooves also in The rockface some hundred meters lower than The temple!</p>
<p>I have been to several of The historic cultural gathering sites in western europe, in egypt, greece, England, turkey and Syria, but no place can compare to GT. After leaving there we really felt like we&#8217;d visited or taken part in something significant.</p>
<p>The city of sanliurfa, urfa, closest to GT claims after Local traditions to be The place where Abraham was born, there is a large abrahamittic cultus in The area, absolutly facinating! You would recognize so many of The myths/stories from The old testament. Even Local tales tell that after The flood Noah ended his journey here, that GT is mount arrarat. Thus explaining, in This tradition The presens of The extencive fauna reliefs on GT.</p>
<p>And The mulbery tree&#8230;. Epic!</p>
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		<title>By: Jungle Jim</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-26453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jungle Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 04:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-26453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric:
Look again at the figures of vultures. You will notice that their knees bend , not like birds, but like human beings. These are interpreted to be shamin performing a ritual excarnation, while wearing a vulture costume. Since we already knew that excarnation was practised at this time and at this place, and the significance of vultures to the practice, it was an easy leap to to conclude that this is a religious site.

JMP:
Edgar Cayce specifically said that Atlantis would reemerge in the Carribean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric:<br />
Look again at the figures of vultures. You will notice that their knees bend , not like birds, but like human beings. These are interpreted to be shamin performing a ritual excarnation, while wearing a vulture costume. Since we already knew that excarnation was practised at this time and at this place, and the significance of vultures to the practice, it was an easy leap to to conclude that this is a religious site.</p>
<p>JMP:<br />
Edgar Cayce specifically said that Atlantis would reemerge in the Carribean.</p>
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		<title>By: Maju</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-26448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 03:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-26448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The t-shape could well be a mere pillar. It could be symbolic but I&#039;m personally suspicious that those Ts held ceilings and were not just isolated pillars. 

Anyhow the swastika or lauburu is probably older and I remember being it mentioned already in Gravettian contexts and appears again in Samarra culture platters soon after, where the arms of the cross are antelopes, maybe orices. The regular, static, cross appears also in the Neolithic of that area, in Tell Halaf culture (same area as GT, but some time later). T shapes in symbols appear later in the Aegean either as speculated &quot;anchors&quot; or as the famous double axe. But I would not say that T symbols and + symbols are the same concept, at least not necessarily so and I know of no reason to think so (except the Christian hybrid variant, which is just a peculiar late development but is probably what brought you to make that association, Avia, right?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The t-shape could well be a mere pillar. It could be symbolic but I&#8217;m personally suspicious that those Ts held ceilings and were not just isolated pillars. </p>
<p>Anyhow the swastika or lauburu is probably older and I remember being it mentioned already in Gravettian contexts and appears again in Samarra culture platters soon after, where the arms of the cross are antelopes, maybe orices. The regular, static, cross appears also in the Neolithic of that area, in Tell Halaf culture (same area as GT, but some time later). T shapes in symbols appear later in the Aegean either as speculated &#8220;anchors&#8221; or as the famous double axe. But I would not say that T symbols and + symbols are the same concept, at least not necessarily so and I know of no reason to think so (except the Christian hybrid variant, which is just a peculiar late development but is probably what brought you to make that association, Avia, right?)</p>
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		<title>By: Maju</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-26062</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-26062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You said: &quot;Imagining that these ancient people were worshipping formal religious gods is a bit premature; more likely it is a typical hunting &amp; gathering (&amp; fishing and scavenging etc.) totemism&quot;. 

You are defining here what these people can believe or not. You seem to have preconceptions about the timeline of religious evolution and these &quot;totems&quot; (????) do not match your scheme. That is what I am criticizing. 

&quot;Totem poles (upright carved logs, stone pillars) are common among pre-agriculture peoples&quot;...

AFAIK they are/were only common in some areas of North America, specifically among the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Pacific_Northwest_Coast&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chinook and culturally related peoples&lt;/a&gt;. There are no &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem_pole&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;totem poles&lt;/a&gt; among any other know culture anywhere on Earth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said: &#8220;Imagining that these ancient people were worshipping formal religious gods is a bit premature; more likely it is a typical hunting &amp; gathering (&amp; fishing and scavenging etc.) totemism&#8221;. </p>
<p>You are defining here what these people can believe or not. You seem to have preconceptions about the timeline of religious evolution and these &#8220;totems&#8221; (????) do not match your scheme. That is what I am criticizing. </p>
<p>&#8220;Totem poles (upright carved logs, stone pillars) are common among pre-agriculture peoples&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>AFAIK they are/were only common in some areas of North America, specifically among the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Pacific_Northwest_Coast" rel="nofollow">Chinook and culturally related peoples</a>. There are no <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem_pole" rel="nofollow">totem poles</a> among any other know culture anywhere on Earth.</p>
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		<title>By: DDeden</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-26061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DDeden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 13:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-26061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who are you referring to Maju? (Which comment is your response to?) I said nothing about &quot;spiritual lives&quot;. Formal = artificial = highly derived ritualised social behaviours.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who are you referring to Maju? (Which comment is your response to?) I said nothing about &#8220;spiritual lives&#8221;. Formal = artificial = highly derived ritualised social behaviours.</p>
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		<title>By: Maju</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2010/02/22/gobekli-tepe-temple-in-turkey-predates-the-pyramids-of-giza/#comment-25877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=3207#comment-25877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are just throwing your sectarian and ideological prejudices here. I understand that primitive peoples can have spiritual lives at least as full as modern people, not the least because they are immersed in nature and not in artificial cities and towns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are just throwing your sectarian and ideological prejudices here. I understand that primitive peoples can have spiritual lives at least as full as modern people, not the least because they are immersed in nature and not in artificial cities and towns.</p>
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