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	<title>Comments for Anthropology.net</title>
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	<link>http://anthropology.net</link>
	<description>Beyond bones &#38; stones</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:33:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Neanderthals Dried Fresh Meat, Wore Tailored Clothing &#8211; Energy Study by Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/06/26/neanderthals-dried-fresh-meat-wore-tailored-clothing-energy-study/#comment-14455</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2095#comment-14455</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info regarding Plains Indians and their stew - quite an ingenious cooking method, and something that wouldn&#039;t be obvious from the archaeological record.

There&#039;s an interesting item on cooking in fire pits here:

http://bbq.about.com/od/barbecuehelp/a/aa061006a.htm

I don&#039;t know how far back such fire pits might have been used, but it seems a very good alternative to cooking entire animals over an open fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info regarding Plains Indians and their stew &#8211; quite an ingenious cooking method, and something that wouldn&#8217;t be obvious from the archaeological record.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an interesting item on cooking in fire pits here:</p>
<p><a href="http://bbq.about.com/od/barbecuehelp/a/aa061006a.htm" rel="nofollow">http://bbq.about.com/od/barbecuehelp/a/aa061006a.htm</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how far back such fire pits might have been used, but it seems a very good alternative to cooking entire animals over an open fire.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Neanderthals Dried Fresh Meat, Wore Tailored Clothing &#8211; Energy Study by Steve Dupey</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/06/26/neanderthals-dried-fresh-meat-wore-tailored-clothing-energy-study/#comment-14454</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Dupey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2095#comment-14454</guid>
		<description>If we consider that so many foiled ambushes of quarry ended with a flash of fur disappearing at high speed though the underbrush, a parting shot by way of spear thrown at that disappearing quarry would have been impossible to resist, it seems to me.  

One can imagine scraps of meat drying or freeze-drying around butchering sites very early in hominid history.  It wouldn&#039;t be much of a jump for hominid minds well before Neanderthal to have noticed this  and the non-perishing nature if the resultant dried meat.  Experiments  inducing this result on a larger scale would have seemed forthcoming sooner or later.

I forgot to mention one solution to the question of boiling meat that may well have been used even in Neanderthal&#039;s time or before hand.  Plains Indians were said to sometimes boil stew made from their quarry in its own skin, hung from a tripod, with water inside the skin.  Iv&#039;e never tried this, but the principle is such that the lower temperature of the boiling water inside, keeps the skin from burning through.  Presumably internal organs such as stomach pouches may well have been used also, and were no doubt used at times as storage vessels too.  Simply hanging unskinned quarry over a fire to singe and roast crudely may have led to further modifications of this particularly cooking method, culminating in using skins as boiling vessels, especially if it was noted that unskinned and  cooked game contained boiled stomach contents of an interesting flavor and texture.

Caribou stomach contents were said to be a particular delicacy with some northern peoples.
Pehaps skin cooking could have led to the use of hot rocks to boil food in containers separate from the fire as an elaboration.  As tedius as this method seems, it was widely used by tribal people without pottery  in much later times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we consider that so many foiled ambushes of quarry ended with a flash of fur disappearing at high speed though the underbrush, a parting shot by way of spear thrown at that disappearing quarry would have been impossible to resist, it seems to me.  </p>
<p>One can imagine scraps of meat drying or freeze-drying around butchering sites very early in hominid history.  It wouldn&#8217;t be much of a jump for hominid minds well before Neanderthal to have noticed this  and the non-perishing nature if the resultant dried meat.  Experiments  inducing this result on a larger scale would have seemed forthcoming sooner or later.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention one solution to the question of boiling meat that may well have been used even in Neanderthal&#8217;s time or before hand.  Plains Indians were said to sometimes boil stew made from their quarry in its own skin, hung from a tripod, with water inside the skin.  Iv&#8217;e never tried this, but the principle is such that the lower temperature of the boiling water inside, keeps the skin from burning through.  Presumably internal organs such as stomach pouches may well have been used also, and were no doubt used at times as storage vessels too.  Simply hanging unskinned quarry over a fire to singe and roast crudely may have led to further modifications of this particularly cooking method, culminating in using skins as boiling vessels, especially if it was noted that unskinned and  cooked game contained boiled stomach contents of an interesting flavor and texture.</p>
<p>Caribou stomach contents were said to be a particular delicacy with some northern peoples.<br />
Pehaps skin cooking could have led to the use of hot rocks to boil food in containers separate from the fire as an elaboration.  As tedius as this method seems, it was widely used by tribal people without pottery  in much later times.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Neanderthals Dried Fresh Meat, Wore Tailored Clothing &#8211; Energy Study by Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/06/26/neanderthals-dried-fresh-meat-wore-tailored-clothing-energy-study/#comment-14453</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2095#comment-14453</guid>
		<description>Frying meat would indeed have been difficult - even if somehow they had fashioned a kind of fondue container, such as a suitably modified skull filled with hot fat, the results would definitely have varied.

Good point about the Schöningen spears, they completely slipped my mind, so I&#039;ll look into that - although the H. erectus people who made them may have been more suited to throwing a spear than. I&#039;ve looked at a few H. erectus skeletons online to try and determine if their arms were asymmetrical like ours, but couldn&#039;t tell from my brief search.

 
I think the idea that Mousterian spear points were considered too heavy to be used as thrown projectiles over any appreciable distance, with or without accuracy, first gave rise to the idea that modern humans would have had a competitive edge in the Upper Palaeolithic - plus I suppose even a straight-armed throwing - or bowling - action might have been possible for Neanderthals. I&#039;m not sure if they used bolas or slingshots either, but not as far as I know.

I think too that the massive amount of broken bones Neanderthals displayed further indicated that Neanderthals engaged their prey face to face - maybe that was their preferred method of hunting, but if they could have thrown effectively from distance, it seems more likely they would have done so, if only to avoid the horrific injuries and searing pain inflicted in the course of their struggles.

But it would seem surprising if no Neanderthal ever launched a spear in anger, either at human or beast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frying meat would indeed have been difficult &#8211; even if somehow they had fashioned a kind of fondue container, such as a suitably modified skull filled with hot fat, the results would definitely have varied.</p>
<p>Good point about the Schöningen spears, they completely slipped my mind, so I&#8217;ll look into that &#8211; although the H. erectus people who made them may have been more suited to throwing a spear than. I&#8217;ve looked at a few H. erectus skeletons online to try and determine if their arms were asymmetrical like ours, but couldn&#8217;t tell from my brief search.</p>
<p>I think the idea that Mousterian spear points were considered too heavy to be used as thrown projectiles over any appreciable distance, with or without accuracy, first gave rise to the idea that modern humans would have had a competitive edge in the Upper Palaeolithic &#8211; plus I suppose even a straight-armed throwing &#8211; or bowling &#8211; action might have been possible for Neanderthals. I&#8217;m not sure if they used bolas or slingshots either, but not as far as I know.</p>
<p>I think too that the massive amount of broken bones Neanderthals displayed further indicated that Neanderthals engaged their prey face to face &#8211; maybe that was their preferred method of hunting, but if they could have thrown effectively from distance, it seems more likely they would have done so, if only to avoid the horrific injuries and searing pain inflicted in the course of their struggles.</p>
<p>But it would seem surprising if no Neanderthal ever launched a spear in anger, either at human or beast.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Richard Wrangham on Cooking and Human Origins &#8211; plus Ray Mears&#8217; Fruit Gums by Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/07/03/richard-wrangham-on-cooking-and-human-origins-plus-ray-mears-fruit-gums/#comment-14452</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2129#comment-14452</guid>
		<description>Very interesting comments, worthy of a blog post in their own right - I forgot to ask in a related post whether modern hunters of game only go for the meat component, or whether they use other parts such as the skin, or sinews etc for clothing or sundry other applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting comments, worthy of a blog post in their own right &#8211; I forgot to ask in a related post whether modern hunters of game only go for the meat component, or whether they use other parts such as the skin, or sinews etc for clothing or sundry other applications.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Anthropology: Societies in Transition: Podcasts from the University of Oxford/iTunes U by Four Stone Hearth #71: Australiana edition &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/07/14/anthropology-societies-in-transition-podcasts-from-the-university-of-oxforditunes-u/#comment-14451</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Stone Hearth #71: Australiana edition &#171; Neuroanthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2221#comment-14451</guid>
		<description>[...] you’re interested in podcasts, see also the review of a series of lectures from Oxford at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you’re interested in podcasts, see also the review of a series of lectures from Oxford at [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Use of Optimal Foraging Theory to Estimate Late Glacial Site Catchment Areas From a Central Place: The Case of Eastern Cantabria, Spain by Four Stone Hearth #71: Australiana edition &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/07/05/the-use-of-optimal-foraging-theory-to-estimate-late-glacial-site-catchment-areas-from-a-central-place-the-case-of-eastern-cantabria-spain/#comment-14450</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Stone Hearth #71: Australiana edition &#171; Neuroanthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2117#comment-14450</guid>
		<description>[...] Anthropology.net, editor Tim Jones offers an extended discussion of the use in archaeology of ‘optimal foraging’ theory to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Anthropology.net, editor Tim Jones offers an extended discussion of the use in archaeology of ‘optimal foraging’ theory to [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Weak Sun Possibly Brought Down The Tang Dynasty &amp; Mayan Civilization by Dr. Sean Coyne</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2008/11/06/a-weak-sun-possibly-brought-down-the-tang-dynasty-mayan-civilization/#comment-14442</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Sean Coyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=1768#comment-14442</guid>
		<description>@ John Kim. Not too bright, are you son? There&#039;s an irony there, if you can spot it. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ John Kim. Not too bright, are you son? There&#8217;s an irony there, if you can spot it. ;-)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing a new guest blogger, German Dziebel, author of “The Genius of Kinship” by Pro-IQ</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2008/05/11/introducing-a-new-guest-blogger-german-dziebel-author-of-%e2%80%9cthe-genius-of-kinship%e2%80%9d/#comment-14441</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro-IQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropologynet.wordpress.com/?p=843#comment-14441</guid>
		<description>Sometimes it&#039;s really that simple, isn&#039;t it? I feel a little stupid for not thinking of this myself/earlier, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes it&#8217;s really that simple, isn&#8217;t it? I feel a little stupid for not thinking of this myself/earlier, though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Damien Hirst&#8217;s diamond encrusted Skull &amp; Jeweled Skulls in Archaeology by A Arte de Amy Sarkisian &#124; CURIOSIDADES NA NET</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2007/06/01/damien-hirsts-diamond-encrusted-skull-jeweled-skulls-in-archaeology/#comment-14435</link>
		<dc:creator>A Arte de Amy Sarkisian &#124; CURIOSIDADES NA NET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/2007/06/01/damien-hirsts-diamond-encrusted-skull-jeweled-skulls-in-archaeology/#comment-14435</guid>
		<description>[...] já é uma coisa antiga. Pesquisando pela internet encontrei um artista que simplesmente cobriu um crânio com diamantes. Amy Sarkisian não utiliza de materiais  tão valiosos, mas suas obras, mesmo de valor inferior [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] já é uma coisa antiga. Pesquisando pela internet encontrei um artista que simplesmente cobriu um crânio com diamantes. Amy Sarkisian não utiliza de materiais  tão valiosos, mas suas obras, mesmo de valor inferior [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Neanderthals Dried Fresh Meat, Wore Tailored Clothing &#8211; Energy Study by Steve Dupey</title>
		<link>http://anthropology.net/2009/06/26/neanderthals-dried-fresh-meat-wore-tailored-clothing-energy-study/#comment-14431</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Dupey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthropology.net/?p=2095#comment-14431</guid>
		<description>The notion that Neanderthals couldn&#039;t throw spears is an example of some supposed expert pronouncing some ridiculous conclusion based upon a faulty untested hypothesis that flies in the face of both common sense and physical evidence. 

The discover of the Schoninger spears refute this notion, as the only people around to have made and used these &quot;throwing spears&quot; at the time (well before Neanderthal), were almost certainly his ancestors and they were also physiologically very similar in shoulder anatomy as far as we know.

A simple test showing just how absurd this notion that a robust human cannot throw a spear due to shoulder blade anatomy or motion limitation therein can be performed in five minutes.  If I strap my shoulders to my body, limiting all motion to arm movement from the elbow down, I can still throw a spear with considerable force clear across a room or an opening by simply combining the lower arm&#039;s foward (or sideways) swing with a quick high-torque twist of the body.  Try it.

If my puny body can still throw a spear with enough force to penetrate an object while my entire upper arms are strapped motionless, certainly brawny Neanderthals could have generated a lot more force of a very lethal nature. This test situation eliminates all motion generated by the upper arm and shoulder.  In reality, we can assume that, whatever unproven limitions there may have been from Neanderthal&#039;s shoulder anatomy, his upper arms and shoulder would still have been  partly in motion and thus at least somewhat involved torque-wise. This would therefore have produced considerably more force than  the conditions of my test allow.

Simple tests such as this should always be conducted before silly pronouncments such as &quot;Neanderthals couldn&#039;t throw spears&quot; become accepted as known facts.

I also noticed some references to Neanderthals &quot;frying&quot; meat.  I would suspect that the author actually meant &quot;roasting&quot;, as frying would require a pan of some sort to hold the oil and allow the meat to actually fry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The notion that Neanderthals couldn&#8217;t throw spears is an example of some supposed expert pronouncing some ridiculous conclusion based upon a faulty untested hypothesis that flies in the face of both common sense and physical evidence. </p>
<p>The discover of the Schoninger spears refute this notion, as the only people around to have made and used these &#8220;throwing spears&#8221; at the time (well before Neanderthal), were almost certainly his ancestors and they were also physiologically very similar in shoulder anatomy as far as we know.</p>
<p>A simple test showing just how absurd this notion that a robust human cannot throw a spear due to shoulder blade anatomy or motion limitation therein can be performed in five minutes.  If I strap my shoulders to my body, limiting all motion to arm movement from the elbow down, I can still throw a spear with considerable force clear across a room or an opening by simply combining the lower arm&#8217;s foward (or sideways) swing with a quick high-torque twist of the body.  Try it.</p>
<p>If my puny body can still throw a spear with enough force to penetrate an object while my entire upper arms are strapped motionless, certainly brawny Neanderthals could have generated a lot more force of a very lethal nature. This test situation eliminates all motion generated by the upper arm and shoulder.  In reality, we can assume that, whatever unproven limitions there may have been from Neanderthal&#8217;s shoulder anatomy, his upper arms and shoulder would still have been  partly in motion and thus at least somewhat involved torque-wise. This would therefore have produced considerably more force than  the conditions of my test allow.</p>
<p>Simple tests such as this should always be conducted before silly pronouncments such as &#8220;Neanderthals couldn&#8217;t throw spears&#8221; become accepted as known facts.</p>
<p>I also noticed some references to Neanderthals &#8220;frying&#8221; meat.  I would suspect that the author actually meant &#8220;roasting&#8221;, as frying would require a pan of some sort to hold the oil and allow the meat to actually fry.</p>
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